Triple P- what do you guys think..

[kadownie]

Dh and I have been doing a multiple specific triple p (postive parenting program) togehter.. mostly I have been enjoying the contact with a heap (about 30) other parents of twins.. it's been great to hear about others experiences and know that we are not alone in our journey as parents of twins.

I am enjoying the sessions, but I am finding I am questioning some of the 'stratagies' but not really knowing why..

basically to me they encourage you to 'reward' your child for good behaviours- not with food, but with encouraging words. positive affirmation, behaviour charts etc..

we're haven't done the session on managing 'bad' behaviour.. so I'm not sure what I think about that..

what I'm questioning is the concept of rewarding for good behaviour.. is that a helpful thing.. is that something I want to instill in my child?? I feel conflicted but I don't know why...

I guess I was hoping a wise woman would be able to point me in the right direction of where I could investigate this.. and also what people thought of rewarding, and the possilbe implications.. positive and negative..

all in all.. I am enjoying the course.. I know I'm somewhat different to most of the Mums there in terms of parenting. It was amazing to hear on the first night everyone saying how they needed to know from a professional how to care for their twins.. yes, it is useful to get people's opinions, but what about trusting yourself??

[GreenGully]

Have you read Alfie Kohn's article? "5 reason's to stop saying good job"? (I could be wrong on the title but a search should bring it up). That article pretty much says it all. Let me see if there are any more articles I can find for you.
The few things I have heard about the triple p thing really don't sit well with me. Praise for some behaviours and with drawing of attention for others sends a message of conditional love in my mind, for starters.

[GreenGully]

http://www.naturalchild.com/robin_gr...ds_praise.html
http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/rewards.html
Theses two should help!

[Marmee]

Have a look at this great article by Sarah J Buckley that we have on our site.

We *do* reward here (I find it really hard to break), but in the sense that we talk to our 7 year old about the fact that if he helps out around the house, then Mummy and Daddy don't have to do so many jobs and that frees us all up to be together. So, we usually make a comment about "wow - the kitchen got tidy so fast today....we've got time for a game before we head out" or whatever. This works often for our growing man.

Same as he has discovered that if he can help out at the shops, by grabbing a few things for me (6 apples iplease, sort of thing) rather than whining about having to be there, he knows that we get home quicker which means he is able to get to and play quicker!!! He only mentioned this "discovery" to me a few weeks ago

Call it bribery, call it reward....I tell myself that this sort of "reward" is a fact of life. I vacuum my house in record time, I have more time to spend at NP Making it more intrinsically valuable???

On the flip side of the coin, we definitely don't withdrawl attention if he doesn't help out....but it *is* a fact of life that things will still need to be done, so time is less.

[GreenGully]

I think that what you speak of are really just natural consequences Marmee. If they were contrived then they probably wouldn't be so effective! How cool that your boy worked it out too - he is far more likely to remember what he has learnt re time management than if you had bribed him with unrelated praise/rewards.

[Jamie]

I am in the middle of reading a good section on rewards (among many other things) in Robin Grilles new book, Heart to Heart Parenting. Maybe see if some near you has a copy you can borrow. Reading it is really helping me get back on track with my parenting and to get out of a bad cycle.

[0BleSseD0]

I think praise is good when your child has done something particularly good or has offered to help or has fulfilled a request..
But not for everything.

Motivation instead of bribery or incentive.

Totally agree with not rewarding with food.

[Marmee]

Originally Posted by Gullygirl

I think that what you speak of are really just natural consequences Marmee.

Ohhh - I like! Natural consequences

[GreenGully]

I think praise is good when your child has done something particularly good or has offered to help or has fulfilled a request..

If my child does something tha genuinely pleases me then I have no problem with expressing that - I tend to use more constructive communication than praise though if I can help it. Fulfilling my requests receive a thank you rather than praise. But empty praise "good boy" etc is never ok imo.

[sweetchili]

I think it is great that you are thinking deeply about the way your parenting affects your children.

It was my understanding that the postive parenting program was quite a good parenting program. They might not be as 'natural' as we parent our children, but they have a lot of success in helping families in a fairly appropriate way.

Obviously here on NP we spend a lot of time thinking about our parenting and what are the best methods for us. Tripple P is a program designed for parents who are more mainstream than us, and who may not accept the things we think about parenting, and who may not even be able to put the calm ways we parent into place as easily. Not meaning to be demeaning to these parents...but i think we can all agree that just like some parents dont want to take the time to use cloth nappies and put in that little bit more effort, the same would go for their parenting methods.

As a child care worker, and even just as a human on this earth i have seen some really horrible examples of parenting. These kind of programs actually do wonders for these families, avoiding chidren being put into the foster care system, and bringing nearly broken families back on track.

Bringing love and care back into families.

So i think they deserve a little more credit than we tend to give them here on NP.

I do agree with the linked articles though. I think that many chidren are over rewarded, and praised.
And i personally hate reward charts and bribery. But honestly in todays world of stresses these things REALLY do work for some family's.
ANd although there may be some proof that the outcome of these kind of rewards is not completely optimal for all children, the effect it has on the family as a whole could outweigh that.

So i was reading the first link;
http://www.naturalchild.com/robin_gr...ds_praise.html
I find the article very one sided and almost like propaganda*. The second part tends to help things make a bit more sense. But i would be horrified to think how some parents my take the "Praise is bad" stance this article seems to portray, and then not read the full article.

I have to agree that their are many chidren who we think have high self esteem because their parents have praised them and given them lots of rewards and made sure they have always seem so happy with everything thing they do.

One of the issues I have is the children brought up by parents who do not let their child see they are disapointed in their behaviour. Of course you can let them see that....that is a completely natural consequence. Its because you love them that you are disapointed in them, and i think children need to know that.

My mum used to always say to us, 'it is because i love you, and want you to learn the right thing to do and be safe', as a child i completely accepted that.

But I absolutely believe that there is a place in this world for praise.

Obviously the best of these praises are as Marmee has said her family do, are the natural and relating ones. Like having more family time because the chores were done quicker and without fuss.

And things like evaluting 'i like the way you made the paint brush go round in circles' than just a 'great work' comment.

But what about the children who dont understand that?
Babies and young toddlers?
What about children with disabilites???
I give CJ heaps of praise. I use clapping, and cheering and smiling, and the hand sign for 'good', and an ubundance of "you can do it'....'nearly there'....'that's it' 'you got it!' 'Wow' 'fantastic'.

If you watch a mother with a baby learning to sit, crawl, walk,
it seems that her natural instict is to praise. So i dont see why you wouldnt continue to praise.

Perhaps for many parents it would be hard to work out what that natural praise or consequence is as the child gets older.



*Propaganda is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented