older kids and no praise?

[Asha]

I was just wondering how those of you with older children approach the no praise idea. My family are convinced that I am neglecting my toddler by not praising him constantly and it has started giving me some self doubt. I guess what I am wondering is what your older kids think about it?
Do they notice a difference between them and their friends who's daily lives are constantly monitored, praised and commented on. Do they feel like they are missing out? How long have you been following these kind of ideas for, have you changed strategies along the way?
When I read all the books supporting this gentle idea of raising children without reward or punishment, I can see so much sense in it. But when my family question me and take offense that I would want to do it so differently to them, it makes me starting worrying about it.
What is a really good and brief comeback to the comments about the praise being necessary for good self esteem? I can't seem to come up with a quick and concise comeback.

[hanabi]

My personal observation is that the inclination to praise (good boy, good girl) tends to drop off in favour of more sophisticated and sincere communication as the kids grow up.

I don't think empty praise matters much, unless it comes from us parents.

And if I am genuinely proud or satisfied or needing to share I will share. It's not praise per se because I would use the same communication process if it was something I couldn't be proud of. It's much simpler looking at it as plain old, straightforward communication, isn't it?

[mattiesmum]

I feel that a child usually lets you know if they are needing some sort of positive imput or reassurrance. So if your child looks to you for some sort of soothing or help with emotional regulation as long as you provide it I don't see the problem.After all true empathy isn't words of praise, it's a connection created by healthy attachment and love.I find heartfelt approval or excitment to be a positive thing sometimes. Look to yourself and your child, if what you are doing brings you and your child joy than yes you are on the right path, if it is causing you to feel doubtful or unsure or your child to feel less in some way maybe you need to tweak it a bit? Even "good" books with wonderful ideas are not created exclusively for you and your relationship with your child they are just "ideas" that can be adapted to deliver the best outcome for you.Experiment, delve, question, discover!

[jennykable]

I always like this article by Alfie Kohn, called "5 Good Reasons to stop saying 'Good Job"

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm

I think he has written other stuff about praise/rewards etc that I always find really easy to read - just google him and all his articles are on his website.

Cheers, Jenny

[smurray]

Hi there,

That was a great article. In some ways similar to what I have read in other books. One difference is that I have read about how praise such as "good girl/boy" is evaluative of the person, while "good job" is evaluative of their actions. But I guess its all evaluative, and in the end it does teach them to focus on what we as parents/elders/teachers think and less on what they themselves think and feel.

I am finding it surprisingly hard not to praise.. its such a habit... I actually really don't like "good girl", and I cringe when I hear it. My parents use it constantly with DD.

I know what you mean about doubts when others do things differently or criticise. I find it hard not to doubt myself. I think its a process, learning to trust your instincts.

[Marmee]

I was inclined to go and look up the definition of praise

Going by this, I praise my children often.

As in, today my son told me he got all his spelling words right "Wow! Congratulations! All your practicing last night really helped, heh?" and a hug.

My daughter today, as we shopped, was in to touching everything (as they do when they are 2). I asked her to keep her hands off the glasses (we were in the glassware section). "Great listening" I can remember myself saying as I tried to catch her with her hands off

We also talk about how it makes you feel. So, when DS 7 comes up to us and asks us if we like the lego ship he has made, we tend to talk about the ship, ask questions and try to have him tell us how he feels about it.

How do you not praise?

[smurray]

How do you not praise?

Good question. I think its so ingrained in what we do that its taken for granted that praise is good for kids and normal. It sometimes feels wrong not to praise, as though we are withholding something or being cold.

But having read that article and some other books about it, I know for a fact that in my life, praise has generally not been good for me. My parents and teachers praised me a lot, generally for things like helping others, or doing well in my school work. This was coupled with them rarely taking enough time to listen to me, to ask about my feelings about what I did, or what was happening in my life, or asking me what I thought I could do about issues that were bothering me. THis is not to say mine were bad parents!! They were very loving in many ways. They were often busy, they had other problems, and they didn't think about it.

The result was that I became strongly outwardly focused and other-directed. All through my school years I was "the good girl", the "good student". I followed rules, worked hard for others, and earnt my praise. Great. But then what?

As an adult, I am now coming to understand that in a lot of areas, I don't have a clue what I like and don't like. I often don't know what my needs are. I can spend days worrying about other people, and sometimes about what they think of me, when I have no control over their actions and in any case, I don't have any idea what its like to be them. Their opinion of me is none of my business.

I have gone for days or weeks working tirelessly for someone else, only to collapse in a heap, tired and sick, and resenting it like hell. I even chose a course to study and a profession at least partly because it earnt me praise and others thought it was the right thing. Not because I felt driven to it, I found it deeply fulfilling, I enjoyed it so much, and therefore I had been practising it and learning it since childhood.

As an adult, I am having to relearn to identify my needs and feelings, and to let go of caring about others opinions and needs as much as I do. I want to care about others because I care about them, not because I care about what impression I am making on them. This is what I want to avoid happening to my daughter, and why for me, I want to try and avoid praise.

[Asha]

What I would really love is to speak to someone who has been raised on no praise. Actually, that isn't right because the no praise thing is just such a small component of raising a child in a way as to retain their autonomy and spirit. I mean, if you just look at the no praise part then it sounds cruel and barbaric to withold something which is considered such an important communicative tool for parents and children. But when you look at the whole method of giving children enough respect to not manipulate them and mould then into how we think they should be, whether that be via praise/reward or punishment, then it actually seems to me to be a beautiful and loving way to intereract with children. So what I would love is to meet someone who has been raised in ways similar to the methods described by Alfie Kohl, Louise Porter or Naomi Aldort. Their methods seem so natural and respectful and gentle but I do wonder if by following similar principles, I will be raising a tribe of feral, obnoxious darlings. Maybe that is the science craving person in me, I always want to see published studies and proof and meet living cases of these ideas......

[hanabi]

I think it all depends on whether we praise with an agenda - to obtain an outcome like compliance, motivation, or behaviour control - or whether we praise to celebrate or acknowledge something genuine. I don't think sincere and objective praise is such a bad thing. I think praise with an agenda is what the Alfie Kohn article is primarily about.

If praise is acknowledgement, then I think it's an important aspect of communication. Imagine a life without acknowledgement!

[smurray]

There's quite a bit of research, cited by Alfie Kohn and also by Martin Seligman (who was the president of the American Psychological Association) in his book about Positive Psychology.

I agree that the motive is everything. I wouldn't call praise without an agenda praise. Its different, its acknowledgement, ie observation ("you did it!" "you look happy about that!") or its "I" statements ("I'm impressed ", "I'm pleased", "Thanks, thats helped me").
Its owning whats ours - respectfully communicating.