big rant and ideas needed.

[Emmandcasp]

C who is 4 and a half is unable to do anything by himself. I offer suggestions (lego, couloring, cars, dolls house etc) but he says no to everything and then mopes around saying "Im bored" and to be honest being a Pain in the neck. We go out a lot and he has lots of playdates/runs in the park/outdoor activities however when at home I have to do something with him 100% of the time and I am very frustrated. This am we have walked to the shops, had a play in the park, watered my parents garden. We are now home and for the last 45 min he has been laying on the couch chanting about how bored he is and how I never play with him, and how terrible his life is and it really presses my buttons.

The other issue is that when ever he is asked to do anything (put on your socks, pack up lego, put on hat etc- mostly very simple tasks) he will say "I need help". He DOES not need help- this is his way of saying I dont want to. He says he needs help for everything and this too has me at screaming point with frustration.

Finally (for now anyway) is respect. The lack of respect is starting to get to me. Quite often he is very rude/threatening and or physically violent. for instance this am when I was trying to get him to put on shoes he was saying "do you want me to punch you in the face dumb dumb" and this sort of muttering goes on often.
While I was demonstating to younger brother being gentle and stroking my face C was yelling- "punch her, go on punch her". and mr 1 thinks Mr 4 is a great hero so you can imagine what follows.
I resorted to yelling at him- and saying he could not come out of his room until he speaks nicely to everyone in the family- but within 5 min it degenerates again. He is completely in the habit of being rude and defiant.
HELP!!!!!!

I did use to think this sort of stuff was learnt but we do not model this at all. We speak nicely to eat other, never use physical violence etc.

[Meridith]

(((hugs))) Emma.

I know well the pain and frustration, it must be especially exhausting when you have the 2 and the older child is seen as a "role model", just not the sort you want! It must be so heartbreaking knowing that your heart towards C wants what is good, and pleasant - but he fights you the whole way, I imagine your supply of joy in parenting is severely depleated.

Some thoughts. I really believe that there is nothing you have *done* or not but rather more deeper issues working here. With all the hard work you have put into parenting it is not like you are staring severe family dysfunction in the face.

Perhaps C is 'acting out' some tensions within the family, things that noone talks about but they are still there...if this is the case (As it is for most families) there is one child who is often viewed as "the problem child" who is actually using their behaviour to attempt to expose and highlight the family dynamic (and it can be extended family). This is not a bad thing by the way.

You mentioned that some of his behaviours trigger some fairly emotive responses for you. How well do you remember your childhood? Can you remember emotive memories - how your parents did/didn't respond to you. These emotional memories form an 'implicit' response within us. As parents, reactions that to be reflexes are actually a subconcious response that we have learnt somewhere along the way - they are a way to deflect us from our true feelings....often a way of protecting ourselves from painful feelings.

If you can get a copy of Parenting from the Inside Out, you may find it useful in looking at implicit responses and more.

You may remember me mentioning the work we have been doing with our daughter, it really has been hard but rewarding, we are (finally!) starting to see some real changes in our relationship (parenting-child, for both DH & myself). One of the big 'setbacks' for us was an injury DD sustained at 6 weeks, we didn't even realise until she was nearly 6 months old ...so she lived in pain all that time. For an infant, they don't have the reasoning capacity of an adult, all they know is that this parent they are wanting to trust (the first 12-18 months are about establishing trust), is not meeting one of their most basic needs - in DD's case it was not 'fixing' or preferably preventing the injury. It's a long, long story that I won't bore you with...but I'm trying to say that we're finding the light at the end of our tunnel and I'm sure you will find yours.

PS: I have not forgotten the promised PM - it is coming.

[kelli]

i will be interested in replies to this as beren is the same. he turned five on wed and is so challenging, more so than usual

[Meridith]

Just wanted to clarify that my response was not saying that Cs behaviour is not 'normal' for his age, nor that his being bored etc is related in anyway to family nor yourself, but rather that his reactions (remembering past posts too) and your struggles with him may suggest either of those 2 possibilities.

[liamsmum02]

Yeah Liam is the same though the last couple of weeks have been a bit easier - touch wood.........

Things that work here - I tell Liam about kids who have no toys, who don't get to go to playgroups etc. This seems to help him appreciate what he has a bit more. If he was moaning like that, I would probably put some music on or ask him to go to his room and do it.

Liam "needs" to be fed, dressed, bottom wiped etc etc too. I have just started refusing to help him with it. Days when I know we need to be somewhere at a certain time, I will let it go, but otherwise I just say that he can do it himself. If he doesn't want to wear his pyjamas out then he will have to do it himself. He fought it at first but he's getting heaps better now. I just started with getting him to get dressed into his pyjamas by himself after a bath - not wanting to get cold is a good motivator! Same with stuff like picking up toys - if I ask and ask and ask and it isn't picked up - I throw it all in a box and put it on a high shelf in the cupboard. Usually something like "You can't watch playschool until the toys are picked up" works well with my boys though.

I can't help much with the violent/threatening stuff - Liam only does this occaissionally - when he's really angry. If C is thinking it's funny would it work if you throw it back at him - "Well if you think it's ok to punch me in the face can I do the same to you?" "Would you like it if I punched you in the face?"

I know I seem to say this a lot but when Liam is really playing up and pressing all our buttons, a bit of one on one time usually pulls him out of it. I take him on a date - just the two of us - we go to a lookout at night, to the toy shop, ice cream shop - something special - and spend a few hours together. When he is really difficult and challenging, I think a lot of it is to get attention. As soon as he has it, he's so much better. Do you think something like that could work for you guys? Maybe make it a regular thing - once a fortnight or something like that. I make sure when we're out I have a talk to him and ask him about stuff that we've been doing, about his friends, and of course we talk about Star Wars - he is a little obsessed with it atm!!

I don't know if this will help you guys but just thought I'd share in case there was something there! Sounds like you need a break Emma! I find all that stuff really hard to deal with too. If you think there could be deaper issues maybe try some kineaseology (sp??) - I had some and they looked at emotional issues - it was great.

Big hugs and hope you guys make some progress!

[Char]

Im no expert at all with this issue at all... but i will say that perhaps sometimes its 'okay to be bored' - i find constant stimulation exhausting, and sometimes my trio *need* to get bored, so they get inventive, and make their own games and activities. I just stick to my guns!

((hugs)) i know it's hard!

[liamsmum02]

The other thing I thought of is - physical activity - does he get enough? Like really high energy activities - running around, riding a bike etc.

I don't know if I'm remembering rightly, but you guys live in a unit don't you? Do you have space in the garage where you can set up some "outdoor" type activities - like a mini trampoline, have his bike in there or a scooter. Somewhere you could go and have some running races, play some ball games etc. to help him use up some energy.

I have found my boys are much easier to get along with when they are getting plenty of exercise.

[hanabi]

We have had the "I'm bored" and "I need help" issues here too. I wonder if you are participating in a cycle of behaviour that exacerbates the problems you perceive?

What is your response when C declares "I'm bored"? Personally, I refuse to play this game as, to me, it is a reflection on the child's lack of imagination - which will only be further limited by the adult leading the child in play. I will make suggestions, sometimes serious, sometimes humorous. Gee, sometimes I can be downright annoying ('Oh, how about you come and help me clean out the fridge then?' ) but I don't play with them unless it's a structured game like a boardgame, ballgame or cards, for example, where other players are needed to make it work.

How to break the cycle? I think slow and steady does it. Some of us like our own company and some of us need the stimulation of others. Once you work out how much of it is personality and how much of it is habit, you may find a few more strategies to help him entertain himself.

I'm a bit more forgiving with the "Help me" scenario simply because I perceive it may possibly be a 'this job is too big for me' thing, or 'I don't know how to organise myself to do this' thing. It could even be a 'I just want some positive attention' thing. In this case I will often start by helping and once the task is underway, gradually withdraw my help so that at the end, I can say, "Look what you did! It's all done!" I keep my verbal instructions very clear, eg, "You sweep it over to me and I'll put it in the box" or "I'll sort the blue ones and you sort the red ones" or whatever. So long as the job isn't left entirely to me, I'm usually happy to help. Helping is fun!

I can't comment on the threats and abuse because I've never experienced it. I don't know how I would respond myself but I do think it's important to discuss it when it occurs. Generally though, if I feel like one of the boys is getting too aggressive I organise a dose of his own medicine with some older boys we know. They're not necessarily aggressive either, but they are older, and therefore my boy is lower on the hierarchy and learns what it's like to be less strong, less fast and less clever. It has always worked for us, but C's behaviour may stem from a different issue which requires a different approach. Does he have a physical outlet for his energy and rage?

[hanabi]

Sorry, wrote my response this morning and only sent it now. I see you've had much more thoughtful responses since then...

[KristinC]

I was just thinking maybe he would like to come and do things with you, ie being involved in meal preparations, doing the dishes etc. Either he will really enjoy it or start to think playing on his own isn't so bad!
Don't know what to say about the violent talk though. I really don't understand the need that boys have to be so physical. Maybe there's another more appropriate way he can let it out?