Oh please help!

[Poppysmama]

OK, the night weaning thing is going very very badly.

Initially, Poppy kind of dealt OK with it, after a couple of nights of crying for a short time each time she woke up to have the boob refused, she went back to sleep fine. After that it started taking her a bit longer to get to sleep but she was still OK.

I realised that she was fussing at me (playing with boobs) and sucking really hard on her dummy while trying to get back to sleep, and would stay quite restless until she finally rolled herself off onto her tummy. So I started talking to her about it during the day, saying "at night, there's no more boob now, you just come over for a cuddle, then roll onto your tummy and fall back to sleep". Her comprehension is fine and she can repeat that back, will also just come out with it at random.

But it's like since we started talking about it she's more aware of what's happening and is absolutely not happy about it at all.

So I tried another approach - feeding her in the lounge room 20-30 mins before her daytime nap, then going to bed, reading a story and rocking her to sleep without the boob. I thought maybe if she lost the boob/sleep association while she was more conscious, she would cope better at night. The first day, yukko - a real stinker. She went, but didn't sleep very soundly. Second day, no probs, small cry just as she was dropping off but went down OK. Slept deeper, but not as long. Third day, oh my goodness no way Jose. I persisted, but it was really unpleasant.

Which is when the real fun started. Since trying to remove the daytime boob/sleep association, boy does she ever make up for it at night! Any time from 2am onwards, she literally just hangs on for the rest of the night. I do drop in and out of sleep but not for long. And it HURTS!!! This is a child who sucks a dummy flat in 3 days (I don't buy them any more, she can have flat ones), so she's got one hell of a suck. My nipples are bruised and it's making me very very tired and unhappy during the early hours of the morning (and we're talking early!). This morning by the time she woke up I was really really over it. She always wants a couple of stories before getting up and the first one this morning I read in record time blah blah blah, you know? I was just not in the mood to indulge her. I had been talking to her all morning (night) about how it was time to have the "last one" (she flings herself over me saying "the other boob" every 3 minutes) and that Mama doesn't have any more milk, Mama's really tired, all the ploys I've used in the past to no avail. I struggled this morning to be nice to her at all for at least the first hour. In fact, I wasn't.

I just don't know what to do. This has been going on for three, maybe four nights now. She just won't let go. Every now and again she'll fling herself off and roll over, but immediately that rouses her and she cries for it again. Nothing else will do.

She doesn't boob at any other time other than going to sleep and during the night.

Is it because she's lost her faith in me? Because I've tried too early to stop the night feeds and now she's worried that if she ever lets go she'll never get it back?

Help!

[kime]

Sounds to me it might be part of a really clingy stage I have seen in a few 20 month olds. It seemed to get better after a few months.

With DD1, she had real difficulty getting off to sleep no matter what I did, and I found it quite stressful at that time. But it seemed to improve after a while.

Hugs to you. I know the clinginess can be tiring - but hopefully short lived!

[DePome]

DD2 is being quite clingy at the moment too, more than her usual clingy that is She turns two in April so she is a similar age to Poppy.

I have just night weaned her as she has co-slept in our bed from the beginning and I had started to resent her night feeding in recent months. I was finding that I couldn't console her with anything except the boob, and when I tried to give her cuddle, while giving a running commentry, she would try to push me away while grabbing at the boob This spilled over in to daytime too with her only wanting the boob when she was upset and trying to push me away if I said "here's Mummy's cuddles - cuddles make it better". She even says "No, go-way Mummy" then claws at the boob. I didn't like this attitude at all and decided to night wean.

When we night-weaned DD1 she was about 18 months but DD2 has been more clingy and more boob-orientated so hasn't been ready until about now. We actually broke the cycle the first night and haven't had any problems since. I'm not trying to be cocky or make you jealous, but I will tell you what I did in the hope it might help you.

I banned booby in bed! Before bed on The First Night I told her that there is no milk in bed, whilst shacking my index finger as if saying "no, no, no" and she was nodding back at me as if that was always the rule and she already knows I repeated it over and over when we lay down for stories with DD1 (DD2 normally latches on while I read stories to DD1 but didn't on this occasion). I get her to sleep later on the boob whilst sat at the computer and this doesn't bother me as it's a sure-fire way to get her to sleep when she is tired enough. So I did that, and then I put her in bed. As usual she woke once (sometimes it is more) and again I told her, in a whisper, no milk in bed, only cuddles now. She got it from the beginning and let me hold her until she went back to sleep We were spooning in bed, iykwim and she held my arm over her :heart

Ever since then she has either fallen asleep on the boob or if it's got late and I've had enough I just lay with her in bed and she throws a leg or arm over me and we stay until she sleeps. Only I can do this however, not DH - the clinginess insists on that much! When we wakes one or four times at night I just lie next to her. I should add that very shortly after this began I moved both DD's back in to their queen bed (they've been sleeping in our king with us for about 7 months after a failed attempt to move them in to the queen when we bought it) so it seemed a like a good way to enforce the no milk in bed rule.

Night weaning DD1 was just as easy except I told her no milk until the sun comes up. She was kinda fascinated with the moon at 18 months so it was easy to apply this reasoning. If she could see the moon then she couldn't have milk. She also adapted over night because I thing we had chosen just the right time in terms of comprehension and gave her a black and white rule.

I hope you might find something useful in there Vicki. For me I knew that I didn't want to give mixed messages at all. When I'm tempted to lay on the bed to get DD2 to have a nap I force myself on to a hot sticky sweaty chair somewhere so that I don't take a step backwards. This has been going on for about 3-4 weeks now and while I am still getting disturbed sleep most of the time, and I am not having to go to the bedroom next to ours instead of rolling over, things are improving and I don't lie there with a toddler attached all night unless I break the latch. I often woke with a nerve pinched in my shoulder too from falling asleep with my elbow up near the headboard. Got me in to some trouble in exercise classes, that did.... ouch

[spiralgirl]

oh HUGS to you

[spiralgirl]

As a mum just starting out in boob land, I really fear the weaning, and wonder when is the best time ( not that i plan to for a long time, but it still enters my mind sometimes when i am feeding her) I guess weaning is never fun........for either party.......

Good luck and I hope things run smoother soon

[Emmandcasp]

a couple of thoughts:
- when I night weaned DS1 (approx 16mths), it stopped the boob at night but it DID NOT stop the night waking. In fact he has continued night waking well past toddlerhood.
- I tent to agree- a blanket rule seems to go down best. Boobs sleep at night- so no booby in bed anymore type thing.

I dont think you are doing anything wrong or have damaged her. If you are feeling resentful its not working anymore. Breastfeeding is a relationship and has to wk for both of you. With that said, consider what you will do if she night weans but still wakes up all the time...

[yatrika]

can your partner or someone else help. we are night weaning our son and my husband does it. it is working really well. with me he just wnats to have milk all the time and maybe everytime he wakes up.

[Rinelle]

I'm not much help with the nightweaning bit, because I haven't tried it yet, LOL. I do have to say though, as soon as I tried to cut down on Ezri's breastfeeds, it made her 10 times worse, wanting to feed all the time etc. My suggestion would be to stop feeding during the night (if that's your main aim), and let her feed any other time she wants (I think even Elizabeth Pantley says to leave the daytime nap alone until nightweaning has been achieved, too many changes at once can unsettle children). Hopefull the feeding frenzy will settle down in a few days (Ezri's always did), and you can progress with the nightweaning.

As I said though, Ezri will be 3 in another couple of months, and I still haven't nightweaned, so I don't have any practical experince to go on. She does only have one feed every couple of nights though, so it does stop on it's own eventually, if that's any consolation.

[Nyree]

DD is almost 2, and acts the same way if I refuse boob at night. One night, we basically didn't sleep because she was so upset. However, there's also been plenty of nights of endless feeding....and I SOOOO know what you mean about the sore nipples & being so fed up with the child.

When she woke up a couple of nights ago, DH was already asleep but woke up when she did (a rarity!). He called out to me (I was in the next room), but did not hear either of them. He just put his hand on her & she settled back to sleep. He was really proud of this & said it was like a bonding thing for him. I explained that she does not have the same boob association with his as she does with me, so it never works when I try it. The problem is DH drives a long way to & from work & works long hours, so I'm more concerned about him getting sleep than attending to Bri however many times a night. He seems willing to try, so maybe over Easter when he's got a few days off we'll give it a try? I just don't know how successful it will be as he's such a heavy sleeper. Still, if it works long term, I can cope with kicking him to wake him up a few times.

No other great words of wisdom....just empathy!

I'll also be keeping an eye on this thread for any other ideas people might have.

[Poppysmama]

<<sigh>> Thank you all so much.

So, the no boob in bed thing, does that count for the day nap as well? What I was trying with swapping to the day change was to make it easier, I'd hoped. I thought maybe dealing with that sort of change in the middle of the night was too hard on Poppy, you know?

I tell you, the last thing I want to do is make the day nap too hard so she maybe wants to skip it all together. I'm hoping to be pregnant again by the second half of the year and if I'm as sick this time as I was with Poppy, I will be needing the daytime nap for myself!!

As of this weekend I am starting work again. I'll be out from 11:30 to 5:30 every Sat/Sun afternoon - right at nap time. So Dom will have to get Poppy to sleep, they're just going to have to learn together. Maybe that will make it all easier. And if it goes well, maybe then Dom will be willing to try the night time settling as well, who knows.

I know what you mean though - he's the one bringing in the dollars, so I prefer him to get decent sleep (he's still in the spare room - when will it be my turn in there!!).

I think it's all a bit tougher because we have no family support either, so I don't get a break from Poppy during the days at all. I also, ironically, seem to be suffering from insomnia - here it is after 11pm and I don't feel like sleep is coming any time soon!

OK, time to stop the sob session! Thanks again, I'll give your ideas some thought and see where they take us. I'm still tempted to just let her have her way again - although that really isn't easier, is it?

Thanks. G'night.