Firm, effective, non-violent discipline?

[Ayla]

I'd love to hear from parents who practice non-violent discipline and what has worked for them? I don't want to smack my children, but nor do I want to molly-coddle them if you know what I mean. I find there are lots of articles, etc on why not to smack, but not much in the way of guidance as to what to do instead.

What have you found works? What hasn't? (it would depend on the age of the child too I imagine) I'm your attentive student

[DePome]

I remember feeling this way when my DD1 was about 2 and I smacked her. I had been so proud of not being a smacking Mummy before then as I watched friends who had been tapping backs of hands since their babies were 12 months old But I became stuck eventually too. I was looking for something to do or a magic phrase to say everytime I felt that I had to do something to get the message across that something was unacceptable.

That's where we go wrong! There is nothing physical that is a solution and there is no magic vocal reply. Fast forward to the last twelve months which have been my absolute worst with DD1. I have been more stressed then ever before in my life and our relationship hasn't been helped by me having a Mummy's girl at last in DD2.

It has taken until the last month for me to really find any solutions and see a difference. I have needed kinesiology to undo the damage of an abusive childhood (it's no wonder my instinct was to smack and yell) and to read a lot. I should've done them the other way round as reading all that you can on gentle discipline is fine if you have the head and lifestyle to practise it. Kinesiology has helped me make those adjustments now and my relationship with DD1 has improved 500% !

A favourite book of mine is Children Are People Too by Dr Louise Porter, and I love Parenting For A Peaceful World too by Robin Grille but it is educational more than an instruction book. I like the examples and layout of Parenting Without Shouting or Spanking but hate that they suggest using a timer for everything. There is also the Sears' work too such as The Discipline Book which has age specific sections (stop at about 4yrs from memory).

Hope that helps a bit.

[Mama Latte]

OK, let me outline a typical morning with my DD2.
6.00 am Laila wakes up, sometimes with a smile but normally with a furrowed brow and a frown. Cuddles and kisses, sometimes welcomed by her sometimes welcomed with a "go away!" Stories, sometimes tv, etc etc, Krista will wake up ar some point.
7.00am breakfast time- "Laila, what would you like, cereal or toast" Laila- "cereal", me- "here you go!" Laila- I dont WANT cereal! me- "but you said you want cereal" Laila- "dont want it!"me- what WOULD you like? Laila- I dont want nuffing! me- ok, tell me when you feel hungry. lets get dressed, woould you like to wear a skirt today? Laila- I want a skirt that spreads out and is pink me- Laila, you dont have a skirt like that, how about we pick one you DO have? this one or that one Laila- I dont WANT those, I- WANT- A - PINK- SKIRT- THAT- SPREADS - OUT!! me- Laila you dont have a skirt like that, I will put these skirts here on the bed, and when you pick one put it on and come out Laila- **total mega spackarama, kicking legs, screaming etc etc me- Laila, I know you are angry, why are you acting this way? Laila - increasing decibels and ferocity me- when you callm down and are ready to come out with oyu r skirt on I will be waiting, if you nmeed my help call me
7.15- still screaming, trying to get Krista ready for s chool breakfast, hair, breastfeed JJ, dress JJ, make lunches, get showered, etc etc, perriodically checking Laila who is still naked and screaming
7.30- me- have you decided what you are wearing yet? Do you need help? Laila may or may not be dressed, may or may not continue til eight- then "okay, time to do you r hair "
Laila- you are hurting me, get you r hands off me! I dont want my hair like that total spacarama well how do you want your hair? etc etc
8.30 me- Laila, time to put on your shoes! (whilst hooking Krista and JJ into car) Laila - I want to wear my ballet shoes!" me- Laila, you cant wear your dancing shoes! just put on you r sandals, lets go! again with the total spackarama,
8.45 ticks by, Krista is going to be late, still no shoes. me getting annoyed, Laila screaming louder, me- Laila, listen to me please we are going to be late, increased decibels, try and force shoes on whilst looking at the clock, she kicks me and takes shoes off again, I say- "Laila, you are being naughty, Krista is going to be late and then we wont be able to go to playgroup! JJ is crying please lets hurry up!" More kicking- me- right, if you dont listen to me you are going to get a smack is that what you want? Laila- screams even louder me- *I smack her bottom*- right, get in the car! Laila- gets in the car me later on- "Laila, I dont want to smack you but you werent listening to mummy and we were going to be late! next time if you just calm down and use your words...... etc etc"

Now- I dont think the smack is right, or that it is teaching the right message, and please dont get me wrong and think this is the way it ends every morning, it has only resulted this way a couple of times- but there doesnt seem to be any other way that I can get her to calm down and act in a way that will get us to school on time.

If someone can suggest a better way that will get her moving instantly PLEASE TELL ME! I dont want to smack but I have two other kids too! At the moment its all about Laila and what she needs, not the others.

I have been to three naturpoaths, I have considered FAILSAFE but am starting with an anti candida diet first on recommendation of naturopath.

I thought it was an attention thing, middle child syndrome, but I have been making such a huge effort in taking her to dancing, playgroups, beach, park, colouring in etc etc, but no matter how much time I spend focussing on her the behaviour does not change.

Gotta go, hope this isnt too garbled, I dont want it to be this way, Iand I am not an out and out smacking advocate- I just cant find anther way .

[skn]

I don't think DP and I thought about how we were going to discipline DD and I'm not sure if it's something that we could have worked out before hand. I suppose you'll never really know what works until you get there, you know? Some people swear by certain methods, but in a different situation it may not work for another.

I think one of the biggest things if you do want firm, effective non-violent discipline would be support. Asking for help before you reach that point where it seems too much. Being able to take those breaks from everything to gather yourself really helps (although I understand that not everyone has the luxury of being able to do that). HTH

[Jasper]

I am with you on the not wanting to smack but also have found myself doing so on very rare occasions. It sucks to do it as I konw that it is my temper that has gotten in the way, but also it can sometimes be the only thing that will get us to the end result which maybe getting out the door on time or whatever.
Sometimes I think that Elora gets befuddled with too many choices. Sometimes a choice is the last thing she needs as she is then able to enter into a power play with me (for want of a better word). If she knows she has a choice, she will choose neither and then have a tanty. Dont get me wrong, more often than not, I offer choices as I am not the type of person that MUST BE OBEYED, but more of a person who is happy to find the middle ground where we both get what we want. Its just that with her personality, a choice is not always what works for her and she needs to see that Mummy will do it for her sometimes and it seems to make her feel secure. Do you know what I mean? Maybe you could skip the choice and come out with Laila, today you can wear your shorts with this pink shirt. Or let her choose one thing instead of the whole outfit, or even do the choosing the night before.
As for the OP, there is no magic solution that fits every situation or every child. One day something will work, and the next somethign else will. Its all about flying by the seat of your pants and choosing what will work in that situation at that time......well in my experience anyway.

[Artemis]

There are some great books - like Robin Grille's Parenting for a Peaceful World, also this website and also the Natural Child Project have wonderful articles. Also the articles section of mothering.com has some great stuff that I always refer back to.

Shereen.. my daughter was very similar at that age - VERY CONTRARY! Aletha Solter talks about children using that sort of "yes I want this, now I don't" kind of behavour as a precursor to having a tantrum which is just an emotional release for them of stored up stuff that they can't handle. So like you I would say "well this is what you said and this is what is here" for breakfast etc and just letting the meltdown happen. I also removed lots of choice.. it wasn't "what do you want for breakfast", it became "there is cereal and fruit on the table for you". Also I started to get more into logical consequence with her... asking "do you think it will be fun to go driving to uni and sing some songs in the car?" to which she would say yes (well mostly ) so I would say "well lets hurry and get our shoes on so we can do that - what do you think would be the first song on the CD today?" etc etc

It seemed to work rather well - well most days I have to say that she is now much less stressed by transitions and the contrary behaviour seems to have been a phase that has passed.

[Rinelle]

Originally Posted by Mama Latte

perriodically checking Laila who is still naked and screaming

I'm sorry, I juat had to laugh at this because it is the exact same picture we have at our house when we have to go out. Often, Ezri will pull her clothes off deliberately, saying "I want to be naked for a while", right before we have to go out. It can be very frustrating. I'm glad to know my DD isn't the only one.

No real suggestions, as we haven't found anything that works yet. All I can say is that bribing with chocolate (or ice cream, or any other sweet food), will backfire on you horribly.

I think I'll check out some of those books though, they sound good.

Oh, and one thing that does sort of work I've found is using a timer. I just remembered that someone mentioned it as something they don't like, but we've found it quite successful in times when you need something done in a certain timeframe. Ezri hates getting out of the bath some nights, so we set the timer for 5 minutes, and tell her she can play until the timer goes beep. Often she'll be out before it goes off, but if not, she's happier to get out than she would be if I just told her to. I don't know if it's that it's hard to argue with a timer, LOL, or that she feels that she's gotten some time or something, but it really does work. We only use it sparingly though.

[GreenGully]

I don't use a timer, but I count a lot. Not the "I'm counting to 3 or else" kinda counting but "ok Jack I am going to count to 7 (he usually chooses a number - 7 is his fave) soon and then it will be time to do such and such.sometimes it doesn't work first go and we have to negotiate a little bit more, but our house is far more peaceful since i cottoned on to this technique. It works well for us because he loves to count.
Soemtimes though i have to tell him ok its time to go, are you coming? (this is for when he refuses to get dressed etc) and I make motinos to go. He often runs to the door with chosen clothes, puts them on no fuss, and off we go. Sometimes I find asking him"what DO you want?" helps, not when he is being argumentative but more when he is too upset to really know what it is thats going on. It just makes him stop and think about it and usually ends in a cuddle or bf.
I am don't know how much of all this is of use with more than one child to consider but its all I can think of right now. if I rememebr anything else I will post again.

[Rinelle]

Oh yeah, the counting works too, especially for leaving the swings. We ask Ezri how many more pushes she wants, and she'll give us a number (usually 5 or 10) then I'll count down. Sometimes I throw in the wrong number to see if she notices, LOL. At the end of the pushes, I stop, and let the swing slow down naturally. Usually she wants to get off before it's even stopped.

I think the biggest thing with these types of suggestions is to be consistent. If you say you're leaving after a count to 10, then you have to leave, not give them extra time etc. That's the bit I really struggle with.

[Artemis]

Here is the link to the mothering site that has the articles I was talking about, specifically the one about getting through the day with play, and crying for connection - both have been really helpful with me working on how to deal with stuff

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...iscipline.html
hth!