The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

[Emily33]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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Measles outbreak: I know of 4 kids who had measles in the past 6 months and all of them were vaccinated.

IMO... It is NOT a luxury to be able to choose. It is a human right. It is a DISGRACE that the developing world does not have access to sanitatised necessities which would greatly decrease the spread of disease and illness and therefore a disgrace that yet another one of their human rights 'need' to be violated.

Chicken pox: One of my GPs told me her concern with vaccinating all babies for CP. She explained to me that the most dangerous age for a child to catch the CP is when s/he is newborn. If the mother is BFing the newborn and has natural immunity (ie had CP when she was younger and not immune via vaccine) then she will pass on immunity to baby. But she cannot give immunity to her baby if she has immunity to CP via vaccine. Imagine the ramifications of this future generation of vaccine immune mothers who cannot protect their babies from CP when it is most needed? I understand in the UK CP is not on the schedele. I don't understand why it is in Australia.

What about DPT? I'd considering giving DD the Tetanus vaccine but not Diptheria and Pertussis. I should have a choice and the T part of the DPT is not available on its own for children. It is for adults. It is in Japan. It's not in Australia. It's a matter of packaging and someone who decided for me. That's wrong that I can't choose each vaccine on its own.

I agree that testimonials can fire up our minds - whether they are told in favour of against an issue like vaccinations - but they are a necessary element in the decision making process, particularly when the statistics do not reflect what is reality. Also this is part of life. To not discuss vaccine reactions and to interfere with reporting them is censoring. People see a movie because of how their friend responded to it. Why can't we continue to base our health decisions on a combination of what the available science reveals and how the public responds?

Our society and govt policies should aim for transparency in how we communicate all information.

[Emily33]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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Sorry... I get so fired up about this subject!

[Emily33]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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I also agree that it takes stepping back to make a good decision.

It is always hard to be confronted with any information that entails possible, illness, severe illness, life or death.

I think anyone who seriously considers this issue and debates it is sensible enough to sift through the available information, including testimonials.

I believe the decision that is right for you is the one that is made by you. And the decision that is right for me is the one that is made by me.

[Nyree]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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Nyree, I have to say I disagree - there is no link at all between vaccination and autism

I know we're not going to agree on this & you've stated your beliefs in other vax threads.

I'm just saying that no scientific proof (yet) does not always mean something does not exist. Theirs is not an isolated case.

For me, this is bigger than "MMR = autism". There's a whole spectrum of issues I have with vaccinations, but I also don't like the God complex so rife through the medical/scientific world. I've been lucky to find a couple of fantastic GP's in my lifetime that value the intuition of the mother or patient themselves, but I've also been treated by Dr's at the other end of the scale who didn't believe me about health concerns, even when I had scans & tests results to prove it.

For me, this debate is about recognising shades of grey - nothing black & white about it.

[ENR]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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Jodie, I don't think you are being a hypocrite. There is so much we don't know about diseases and where they come from.

I am trying to imagine what would happen if they put even half the amount of money they spend on vaccinating third world countries into giving them fresh running water and good quality food. So much money goes into providing vaccinations then it does other more important things.

I agree Nyree, there is no scientific proof yet and I believe there could be if scientists actually bothered to test something further even if it ment going against one of their biggest money makers, vaccinations. I once heard Jenny say no one would listen to her when she tried to ask questions about what happened other than to say it is rediculous. Even though there is no actual link yet the reasoning they give for the allegations is the vaccination is given a couple of months before the average age for talking. That doesnt really sit right with me because it is your child. I am pretty sure you would be able to notice a significant difference in their behaviour and communication skills even before they start to talk.

They do this with many things. I read a story written by a lady who is convinced her baby died from the Hep B vaccination. After being vaccinated the baby died the day after. The doctor talking to her was completely sympathetic until they heard her question the hep B vaccination and they put straight down the baby dying from SIDS. I know that she does not believe that it can be determined so quickly.

[JAK]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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I'm just saying that no scientific proof (yet) does not always mean something does not exist. Theirs is not an isolated case.

I'm not going to comment on Jenny McCarthy, however I do agree with the above to an extent. Many believe (including scientists) that autism can be *triggered* by an environmental incident, which may be vaccinations. However, there does strongly appear to be a genetic component. Technically, vaccinations can't cause autism, but whether they have a role to play in triggering it or making the symptoms worse, I don't believe has been answered, nor probably could be answered.

I agree with the concept of vaccination, but would love to see safer ones, with better reporting of side effects. Children do react, some severely and I'd love to see whether they could have vaccinations that would have fewer side effects or find a way to determine whether your child will react.

I hate vaccination debates, they're rarely any good for anything other than trying to make the other side appear wrong and those that believe a differing view as uneducated. Not saying that is happening here, just a very general observation of mine.

[Emily33]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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I hate vaccination debates, they're rarely any good for anything other than trying to make the other side appear wrong and those that believe a differing view as uneducated. Not saying that is happening here, just a very general observation of mine.

Well put.

And the business of referring to those who don't vaccinate as 'quacks' (like the blogger in the first link) just sets me off. The other day I saw my other GP and she noted I'd signed the CO form and called me 'naughty' for not vaccinating my DD. And a few weeks ago I was invited to participate in the 'Sunday Night' forum on vaccination (which I declined as I couldn't see how Channel 7 would present a balanced show) and it turned out completely biased with yet another rude and unprofessional host (although they promised me that they would be fair to both sides). The constant put downs and jugdments are wearing me thin.

One fact is clear as day to me... if there is any better information out there which validly challenges aspects of the vaccination debate it is being censored more than we can imagine. And the most important to me is the reporting of adverse reactions.

[Purly]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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Originally Posted by Emily33

And the most important to me is the reporting of adverse reactions.

I wasn't planning on participating in this debate but I must speak up in agreement to this.

DD1 b2003 was vaccinated up to and including her 12 month shots. At both her 6 and 12 month she had adverse reactions. Different GPs and neither would report the reaction, writing off what I was saying as an over cautious first time Mum. It made me wonder how many other people out there were facing the same issue. That was when I started to look further into vaccinations and whether or not they were the choice I wanted to make for my family.

I also remember back to my childhood becoming very ill and my arm swelling up like a baloon after a tetnus shot. That did not get reported either.

[Emily33]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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Excerpt from latest Whooping Cough article by Meryl Dorey (copied from a recent AVN newsletter)
Fighting fear with information

Several days ago, I completed an in-depth article for the next edition of Living Wisdom magazine, due out in approximately 3 weeks. Entitled, Pertussis: The Fear Factor, it tries to deal with all of the misinformation, finger pointing and accusations by showing that our vaccination rates are at all-time highs and so is our rate of pertussis (whooping cough). Please see the following tables - all sourced from the Australian Government.

The first table shows that in 1991, there were only 318 cases of pertussis in all of Australia. In 2008, there were over 14,000 cases. The vaccination rate for pertussis in 1991 was 71% (see next 2 tables). Today, it is over 95%.

To find a copy of the tables referred to, follow the link and search instructions I got from the AVN:

If you do a search for 'national notifiable diseases surveillance system' in the following link you will find all the statistics and then you can refine your search from there.

It is part of the Australian Government - Department of Health and Ageing website.

Communicable Diseases Australia(CDA) - National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance System(NNDSS)

[Nyree]

Re: The anti-vaccine movement - is it too late?

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Unless things have changed in the last 15 years, Australia does not have compulsory reporting of symptoms after vaccinations like other countries such as Germany. I think until reporting of all symptoms is compulsory, we'll never really get a true picture of post-vaccine outcomes.