Thoughts on 'Time Out'

[SKB]

I'm having a bit of a problem with my 7 yr old daughter. For most of the day she & her 4 yr old brother get along just fine, but 3 or 4 times a day she can get very aggressive & violent with him. This behaviour mainly occurs when he has something she wants or he won't do as she has told him.

It nomally starts with yelling & screaming but quickly escalates into hitting, kicking, pushing & often even shoving him into walls or onto the ground/floor. I try to talk to her about her behhaviour at the time, & later when everyone has clamed down. But she will show no remorse, often refusingg to apoligise.

I tell my son to not play with her if she can't play nicely, but he normally goes off, gives Amelia what she wanted, apoligises for upsetting her, & gives her a hug. After this she is still quite rude to him, as if he was the one who behaved badly.

I'm thinking of trying time out into her bedroom, just to give everyone a break. Let Toby have a bit of space, let Amelia calm down, & allow me some time to compose my self, because I seem to have been resorting to shouting, which I'm not happy about.

Please bbe brutally honest with me, don't worry about offending me. I found this site & hope to use it as a learning tool to discover better parenting techniques, because at the moment I don't think I'm doing a great job. So any & all advice welcome.

Cheers
Sarah.

[SKB]

Sorry I forgot to add that I'm not sure of the technique, I feel it could send the message that if you're not behhaving how I want you to then you have to be removed from us. I think this teaches children to behave a certain way from fear of exclusion, rather than because they understand that no matter how angry you may feel, you never resort to violence.

Cheers
Sarah.

[Jakaluma]

I use "timeout" more for me than the children. It's a time to get away from the situation, remove myself emotionally, so tempers can settle. I will also send them to separate rooms if they are not getting anywhere resolving an issue (mostly just if it becomes violent). Then when they have calmed down I get them to try and work it out between themselves. But mostly they just run off and play, seemingly all is forgiven and forgotten.

I think they get "over it" a lot more quickly than most adults!

But she will show no remorse, often refusingg to apoligise.

If she doesn't feel remorse, should she apologise? Surely it would just be empty words?

Maybe you could ask her to put herself in her brother's place and run through the sequence of events, getting her to imagine how she is feeling (as her brother) as she works through what happened?

Often separation until emotions aren't so delicate helps a situation. Keep clear of "I'm closing you in the laundry because you are being XYZ" and go with a more "please go to your room/bed/whatever space is yours and have some time to think/rant/cry/be angry" then there isn't separation or isolation. Rather, a gaining of your own space to "be" whatever you are right then.

[lrning2b]

Originally Posted by Jakaluma

If she doesn't feel remorse, should she apologise? Surely it would just be empty words?

Yes, they are empty words, but it could be a good opportunity to get into the habit. To teach that even when we don't feel like it we need to recognise that we can cause harm by our words and actions.

Originally Posted by Jakaluma

Maybe you could ask her to put herself in her brother's place and run through the sequence of events, getting her to imagine how she is feeling (as her brother) as she works through what happened?

This is a very good idea. This is a very important tool to teach children compassion. Kids can be so brutally cruel sometimes. Just ask my three in the kitchen arguing at the moment! ARGH!!!!

[emd]

I do use time out for violent behaviour. My thinking is that I need to protect the child being hit/bitten/pinched from further violence; the child committing the violence needs to know it is not acceptable; and not being able to play with other kids is a natural consequence of such anti-social behaviour. Really, it is - if you continue to hurt a person, they will eventually not want to be around you. Time out is just a more immediate form of this isolation consequence that a small child can connect with their actions. It also gives the child time to calm down from their frustration/rage, and time for me to console the other (hurt) child and compose myself.

Our form of time out is to put the child in their bedroom and close the door for a few minutes - all it takes for them to calm down and stop ranting/screaming about not being allowed to attempt grievous bodily harm on their sibling. It's not at all cruel - they have plenty of toys to play with, and they know that once they're calm I will go in and have a quiet chat about what happened. However, they are not allowed to play with their sibling until they have apologised for hurting them - an extension of the isolation consequence. I'm lucky that my girls are younger and live in the moment more, so they are ready to apologise sooner than an older child might. But eventually, all children are ready to apologise for hurting another person - it just takes time for the rage to dissipate and compassion to come in.

[Jakaluma]

Yes, they are empty words, but it could be a good opportunity to get into the habit.

The habit of saying one thing but meaning another? I don't know, to me an apology is pointless if it isn't sincere. I am sorry. (no I'm not, but I know this is the correct thing to say.)

[lrning2b]

Just went into the kitchen and asked the three older ones (the ones arguing before) what they thought.
It was the funniest thing. They are wiser than I give them credit for. You are very right Jackaluma.
They all whole heartedly agreed that a forced apology is useless. They feel that if they were the so called 'abuser' that they had already dealt with the situation and in their mind the argument had ceased. They would need time out to get over it though. And it does not mean that they lack love for eachother. It just means they need their space and the other person should respect it. They do recognise that 'abusing' the other person is wrong, but it obtained quick results that they require. I asked about using the most minimal response other than abuse, like asking nicely. They all agreed that that is a great idea, but it also helps if the offender respects the minimal response.
They agreed that the best thing would be to be respected for their age and experience. I thought this was really interesting coming from children.
I am a converted woman! It turned out to be a perfectly timed question.

[Marmee]

Originally Posted by Jakaluma

I use "timeout" more for me than the children.

Me too And when I use it, I tell the children. If they use time out, they tell us too

So, time out is more of a choice here. If things are getting heated, we'll suggest our little ones have some time out - but they aren't sent to their rooms. They choose where they go (7 year old often chooses his room as he knows he can shut the door and get away from things ).

I completely agree with your concern re: isolating children. I wonder if giving a choice re: where calm down time is spent might work for you?

[Marmee]

Oh - and I should add (that above post took me about 45 mins to write with the goings on here ), that often our 7 year old and even our 2.5 year old will take themselves off to have "time out". It's not always the "grown ups" who have to suggest it. Master 7 year old has also been heard to say to Miss 2.5 year ol "Do you need to have some down time?" And Miss 2.5 year old has been heard to yell "Talm (calm) down!" as she walks away from a situation. The latest was just 10 mins ago when she wanted her brother's soccer boot but he needed to put it on for training. She was very cranky with the world and yelled at the top of her lungs "TALM DOWN!!!" and sat down and crossed her arms!

[emd]

I can just imagine Miss Two and a Half doing that. Sounds like someone I know in our house...